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Cheat: verkeerde motor geleverd door dealer

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motorloos :(

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3.103
Reg. datum:
04 dec. 2007
quote:
Bavianen schreef op 21 maart 2010 @ 11:11:
Omni -> Ok did you get the meaning or ? It´s not how things are spelled ...please just laugh in your on beard......but I´ll check you too, for faults too if you want.


wtf?

ik vind dat TS maar bar weinig informatie geeft.

Eigenlijk is de heule situatie achterlijk...

ach dan zwaaien we nog maar eens
:W
zxr400 [verkocht], gsxr600 [total], gsxr1000 [gejat]

Barbie's aardbeitje

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31.401
Reg. datum:
24 jan. 2003
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Purmerend
quote:
Bavianen schreef op 21 maart 2010 @ 06:28:
Is that not fraud on PURPUS donno if it´s spelt right or..." bewister swindel" cause then the danish police WILL do the case....


If you can prove the bike has been tampered with (i.e. the serial number on the frame or engine doesn't belong to the bike, has been tampered with etc.) then you might have a case as far as fraud is concerned. In that case, only then, the police will act.

If the bike proves to be legitimate, you'll have a hard case proving there was fraud involved somehow. Even if the bike has been involved in some accident and was rebuilt it will be hard to prove the seller knew about that. If he knew the bike was rebuilt he should have informed you, but that's considered a minor infraction and not fraud, provided the bike is sound.

You might also try to prove the bike was not what you ordered. You will need hard evidence to support that. E-mails in general are not considered hard evidence as they can be tampered with. The fact that you kept the bike also doesn't work in your favour. You should have immediately sent the bike back if it's not what you ordered.
In this scenario you will need to file a civil complaint.

To put things in perspective: if nothing else is wrong with the bike, this bike is a year older than the bike you claim to have ordered, in that case you will have lost a few hundred Euro's at worst.
Trying to get that money back will cost you much more in both money, effort and time. If it's a civil case you would need to hire a lawyer and file a complaint. A lawyer will set you back at least 200 Euro's per hour....... The question being: is it worth all that?

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60
Reg. datum:
18 mrt. 2010
It´s running like shit..... 1500-2500 in idlee speed, and all service were made....yeah right.
I didn´t just send it back....then I had no money no bike...fore sure...
I still wait for a respone of markplaats....
I´ve set him an ultimatum. Pick the bike up I pay 50%, due it was not the bike if it has been I´ve paid 100%.
Otherwise: Talk with every biker magazin, news, police.
that could cost alot more than 2200€

Had the bike been running ok, I just would have keept it.
Now I have to bring it to the lokal shop to get it repaird/adjusted/synkronized thats not fair when he said "the bike is 100% ok"

24 okt 2010 [+10]

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13.934
Reg. datum:
18 dec. 2008
Locatie:
Leusden
Giving you the benefit of the doubt... it sucks big time that someone has taken advantage of you, sorry for that.

As the policeman above has indicated, most likely, you will not have sufficient evidence to start a criminal case. Even though, as fas as I am aware still you have to start a civil case to get compensated. My solution to you:

Forget about trying to get your money back the hard way. It will cost you money (may be returned if the judge is on your side) and lots of effort and time. Instead, take learning of what has happened and try to sell the bike in Denmark. If I am not mistaken you still saved money getting this bike and from the looks of it and not having heard complaints from you, it is in okay condition (?). Redarding the prices in Denmark, it should not be such a problem to make a profit on the bike you got. Take that money, try again and do not make the same mistakes again.

Good luck and next time provide more information if you really want people to help you...
DoubleUtB wijzigde dit bericht op zondag 21 maart 2010 13:10 (0%)
Triumph Speed Triple
"Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.” (Pratchett)
Single, Double, Triple... met een 1050 krijgt hij een harde nipple

24 okt 2010 [+10]

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13.934
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ow it is not running okay. Nevertheless, you might still make profit. I have got to say this: your demands are silly. Only in the non-existing perfect world your aproach might have had a slight chance...
Triumph Speed Triple
"Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.” (Pratchett)
Single, Double, Triple... met een 1050 krijgt hij een harde nipple

veni vidi velpon :+

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6.174
Reg. datum:
03 mrt. 2007
Locatie:
Geldrop
bavianen,

first of all, i dó understand why you feel ripped off.
the pictures you showed, im my opinion, do show two different bikes.

the fact is, we cannot see for oureselfves what the terms and condition where at the time of purchase, those are the only things you have to make a case out of this. (a civil case, that is...)

i can imagine, but that`s an educated geuss, that the language-barrier, can cause some kind of miscommunication. thats possible in either direction.

to give a proper opinion about this, i really need to see the mails you have received or send.
if you choose not to quote those here, i understand, but then deal with this youreself.
with this little information you have provided, we cannot give you any advise, other then the advise you already have received.

on the technical part of the bike you have received.. running shit? or just running at a high idlespeed ? the latter isnt really a problem is it?

ill await youre quotes of the correspondence, and more information, you can stick that in here without the adress and names if you dont want to point the dealer out directly...

edit
also, i agree with DoubleUTB,, you saved a lot of money on this bike by importing it...
as far as i know, youre netto salary is comparable to that of the dutchies. so you really CAN make a awful lot of money out of this mistake... since the prices are abdominal there in denmark.

* Quark is thinking about exporting bikes tho denmark })

*grins
Quark wijzigde dit bericht op zondag 21 maart 2010 13:06 (15%)
MF 10 jaar! Feestje!!

Berichten:
60
Reg. datum:
18 mrt. 2010
Gutentag, Wir haben ihre schreiben entfangen.
Sie kunnen ein Anklage machen in Danemark.
Der Polizei in Danemark kan die Anklage nach Holland, ****** senden, und dan kan ihre Anklagt untersucht worden.
Gerne alle mails und bilden mit geben.

Met vriendelijke groeten,

-----------------------------
Wijksecretariaat Team 07
Holstmeerweg 1


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello ****,it took a month because I did not know if I want to sell for
that price but in winter we sell less then in summer so i decided after a
month tomail it is ok.
The body is NOT from two different bikes.The motor has hat a full service
,the oil and filter are replaced.Next service after 6000 km.
The bike you bougt is the bike we were selling.We have had just 1 zzr in
the last 6 months so it is not possible that is was another bike.
We have done our best to do it good for you and we hope that you will
drive lots of km happy on the zzr.I hope that you are happy now.Groeten
*************** *********** *****
Danish Police:
Hej

Det er aldrig rart at blive snydt i en handel.

Prøv at henvende dig til dit nærmeste politi medbringende det materiale du har. Det er ikke sikkert politiet kan hjælpe dig, men må henvise dig til civilt søgsmål. Hvis det kan bevises at der har været fortsæt til bedrageri ,kan der måske køres en sag.



******* ****** pa


Waiting for RDW answer and Markplaats.

xj-600,bj86 440LTD,bj82 TRX850

Berichten:
2.761
Reg. datum:
20 jul. 2004
Locatie:
eindhoven
quote:
Bavianen schreef op 21 maart 2010 @ 12:51:
It´s running like shit..... 1500-2500 in idlee speed, and all service were made....yeah right.
I didn´t just send it back....then I had no money no bike...fore sure...
I still wait for a respone of markplaats....
I´ve set him an ultimatum. Pick the bike up I pay 50%, due it was not the bike if it has been I´ve paid 100%.
Otherwise: Talk with every biker magazin, news, police.
that could cost alot more than 2200€

Had the bike been running ok, I just would have keept it.
Now I have to bring it to the lokal shop to get it repaird/adjusted/synkronized thats not fair when he said "the bike is 100% ok"


after horsing arround in this topic and reading about your sorrow it's getting clear to me that the only way for you to get your money back is through a dutch courthouse.
this is very costly and in your case would exceed the valleu of the bike.
of coarse it would help a lot if you state the name of the company that you bought this bike from.there are a whole lot of dutch bikers with good connections that can be of some assistance then.

However as sour as it might be for you , you said if the bike is ok you would keep it.

My i suggest that you try to fix the bike and then whe all out here can try to help you out.
There are many very skilled technicians in this forum, that i am sure of will do their best to come up with good decent technical solutions to solve the problems.
just weep for a moment dry the tears and stand up tall and tackle the situation and make the best out of this nasty ordeal.

so perhaps you can state what is exactly wrong with it .
1) high idle speed
2)not synchonized / sloppy running

sounds like a simple carb overhaul to me . yes sour indeed but in a bad situation a man got to count his options.

after its fixed it looks like it to me, that one can make a hell of a profit on the bike in denmark
Ducati = De imitatie TRX-850 :)

veni vidi velpon :+

Berichten:
6.174
Reg. datum:
03 mrt. 2007
Locatie:
Geldrop
first question i have about this mail...

did you ask him if the bodywork on the bike you received is from two diffferent bikes??
or did you ask him if why the bike on the adverts had diffferent bodywork as the bike you received...


he obviously gives an answer on the first possibility. even if you are right about it being a different bike, he still can answer truthfull about that question....
"no sir, the bike you have received does not have the bodYwork of two different bikes..."
this could be a major miscommunication in this perticular case :P
see my point?

also, the danish police gave you the same advise... if cannot be proven that fraud was intentionally (wich would be very hard to prove, deu to the high risk possibility of miscommunication), youre only chance is to make a civil procedure out of this...
the police dont have anything to do with that kind of cases.. they just do felonys and criminal law enforcement...
proven fraud would be a case for the police,
a case of mistaken identity of a motorcycle, or by mistake, placing a wrong picture on a advertsite, would be a civil case...
it youre task to prove the first option...

please bear with me, but give the dealer the benefit of the doubt(for now), and try to ask again why the bike shown in the advert has, for example, different mirrors as the bike you did receive..
before you proceed with telling the world about this "fraud", you must be absolutly sure misccomunication isnt the source of the problem.

if you make any statements about him online wich arent treu, you wil do a felony of you`re own, so be carefull ;)
showing the facts on the other hand, is just being truthfull....
Quark wijzigde dit bericht op zondag 21 maart 2010 13:31 (32%)
MF 10 jaar! Feestje!!

motorloos :(

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3.103
Reg. datum:
04 dec. 2007
quote:
DoubleUtB schreef op 21 maart 2010 @ 13:00:
ow it is not running okay. Nevertheless, you might still make profit. I have got to say this: your demands are silly. Only in the non-existing perfect world your aproach might have had a slight chance...


:^
zxr400 [verkocht], gsxr600 [total], gsxr1000 [gejat]

Berichten:
60
Reg. datum:
18 mrt. 2010
Running high 1500-2500 in idlespeed jumping.....
And when I start the "chooker" turns the motor in 5000-6000 rpm.
When I push the throotle back I can get i running 1500 rpm....but when i let go its back in 1500-2500.
I really dont want to have to send it back, but think when they just made service....wheelnut overthigten, motor uneven runing....then my hair gets gray.
Is there a simple way to let the motor run smoother... otherwise it must come to the lokal shop, at 70€ an hour...

Moderator

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32.337
Reg. datum:
02 jul. 2006
Locatie:
Tilburg
Functie:
Moderator
A civil lawsuit about objects up to 5000 eur, can be done without baristor or laywer.

One would simply pay for the courts fee and deliver all the documents to the secretary of the court.

I think the fee is between 100 and 200 eur. This is a change that has been made not too long ago, to give the 'small cases' a fair change, and to prevent legal costs that exceed the original value of the argument.
Motorbanden en autobanden in Tilburg; Bandencentrum Brabant
Caramba motorcycles; motoronderhoud in Tilburg

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Reg. datum:
18 mrt. 2010
You know i'll have to pay 2000-2500€ to get numberplates...so that kind of money isn´t in it... may 1000€, but before it´s running nada€ i think
'
But I´m open for solutions on the idleespeed problem.

As you can read in the mail I git from him, He wrotte the body is NOT from 2 differents bike...I think it is... do you ?

xj-600,bj86 440LTD,bj82 TRX850

Berichten:
2.761
Reg. datum:
20 jul. 2004
Locatie:
eindhoven
quote:
Bavianen schreef op 21 maart 2010 @ 13:22:
Running high 1500-2500 in idlespeed jumping.....
And when I start the "chooker" turns the motor in 5000-6000 rpm.
When I push the throotle back I can get i running 1500 rpm....but when i let go its back in 1500-2500.
I really dont want to have to send it back, but think when they just made service....wheelnut overthigten, motor uneven runing....then my hair gets gray.
Is there a simple way to let the motor run smoother... otherwise it must come to the lokal shop, at 70€ an hour...



take your toolbox out and take the carbs out and take them apart and clean them touroughly in the inside.

your problem just sounds like a very dirty carb with gummed up fuel resideu.
and while your busy inspect the air filter and the spark plugs and change the oil + filter

just do it yourselves . saves a bundle of $$$ and its fun to do.
in the meanwhile perhaps you can think of it on how to make this bike "your" bike

in need of a respray ?? there are a lot of very skilled bike painters walking arround here.
i am sure they can give you some very good advice.
Ducati = De imitatie TRX-850 :)

veni vidi velpon :+

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6.174
Reg. datum:
03 mrt. 2007
Locatie:
Geldrop
quote:
Bavianen schreef op 21 maart 2010 @ 13:30:
You know i'll have to pay 2000-2500€ to get numberplates...so that kind of money isn´t in it... may 1000€, but before it´s running nada€ i think
'
But I´m open for solutions on the idleespeed problem.

also check for leakage in the intake manifold... by spraying break-cleaner or an flamable aereosol around it.. do this while the bike is ideling
if the rpm gets affected by spraying, you have a leak...
just replace the intake manifold rubber in that case, and turn the idlingspeed-screw to the desired speed...
if a bike draws false air, the mixture gets screwed up, wich can result in the things you epxlained...

furthermore, i really think miscommunication is a big isseu in this case...
see the next bit for (hopefully) clarification...
quote:


As you can read in the mail I git from him, He wrotte the body is NOT from 2 differents bike...I think it is... do you ?


in the way you say it like this, i think you are wrong....
i think the language barrier is proven just in this post.
i know what you meant to say, but youre english probably is just too bad to make it clear enough....

the bodywork on the bike you received is NOT from 2 different bikes.
BUT
de bodywork on the two bikes is different....

a subtle difference in language, with a huge difference in meaning...
Quark wijzigde dit bericht op zondag 21 maart 2010 13:46 (76%)
MF 10 jaar! Feestje!!

Barbie's aardbeitje

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Purmerend
Bavianen, I can understand why you're confused.

But I think I do have some knowledge on Dutch law and how things like these work (or don't work....) as I'm a criminal investigator with the Dutch police and have been for some years.
The Danish police might register your complaint.
They might even send an official request for legal aid, through the Danish authorities, to the Dutch authorities, even though I seriously doubt that. I have, over the years, handled hundreds of international requests for legal aid, none of those have ever involved cases like this..... Most likely the Danish police will only file your complaint, if they even register it.
The Dutch legal authorities will most likely turn down the request if they ever receive one, simply because a criminal offence definitely needs to be involved to be able to act.

The problem being that most uniformed cops just don't know how cases like these work, i.e. what is needed to get a "rogatory commission" (an international request for legal aid). They will tell you to file your complaint and that's about it......

My advice, if you plan to go ahead on this course: go to a Danish lawyer with knowledge on these matters. Let him/her explain to you what's involved......and what's possible/impossible.

xj-600,bj86 440LTD,bj82 TRX850

Berichten:
2.761
Reg. datum:
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Locatie:
eindhoven
quote:
Bavianen schreef op 21 maart 2010 @ 13:30:
You know i'll have to pay 2000-2500€ to get numberplates...so that kind of money isn´t in it... may 1000€, but before it´s running nada€ i think
'
But I´m open for solutions on the idleespeed problem.

As you can read in the mail I git from him, He wrotte the body is NOT from 2 differents bike...I think it is... do you ?



how much did you pay in the netherlands for this bike and what's the exact type and dutch licence plate number ?

just sell it in holland and look for an other bike is also a cheap sulution before you put it on denmark licence plates.


off topic what a ripp off in denmark :(
Ducati = De imitatie TRX-850 :)

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60
Reg. datum:
18 mrt. 2010
Ja, jeg ved det vil være en hård sag ...
Men mit temperament eksploderer
Kroppen er fra 2 forskellige, men ikke rammen .... men lad det være :-)
Jeg gjorde ham et ultimatum, lad os se, hvad han svarer ..... En anstændig forhandler ville agry at tage det tilbage fordi han ved, at han gjorde forkert ....
Men hvis ikke, jeg bare gør jeg min cykel ..... men ingen cykel mekaniker ... : o)

MH-GB-46 , Maybe someone knows the bike....
Bavianen wijzigde dit bericht op zondag 21 maart 2010 14:08 (56%)

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Er zijn geen gegevens gevonden voor het kenteken MH-GB-46
CBR 600 F - GSX-R 750 SRAD - R1 - VTR SP1 - CBR 600RR '06 - R6 '07 - GSX-R 1000 K5 - APRILIA SMV 750 DORSODURO - CB 1000RA - WR400

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60
Reg. datum:
18 mrt. 2010
no, not any more

Berichten:
60
Reg. datum:
18 mrt. 2010
Got the idle speed down... with the help from the dealer

I´ll now forget it if the bike runs ok.

Pay my 2500€ and let he spring come....

But I was cheated......and thats for sure.

Thanks for those who did understand my point of view.

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23 sep. 2003
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Diepenveen
held og lykke med din mc.

veni vidi velpon :+

Berichten:
6.174
Reg. datum:
03 mrt. 2007
Locatie:
Geldrop
quote:
Bavianen schreef op 21 maart 2010 @ 16:09:
Got the idle speed down... with the help from the dealer

I´ll now forget it if the bike runs ok.

Pay my 2500€ and let he spring come....

But I was cheated......and thats for sure.

Thanks for those who did understand my point of view.


what was the problem?

we tend to like the solutions to problems, not only the wining and nagging....
this way others with simular problems can find solutions...


sure, if we can we will help...
did you realized a miscommunication CAN cause this kind of problems?

anyhow, glad you have a bike wich runs good now...
MF 10 jaar! Feestje!!

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60
Reg. datum:
18 mrt. 2010
Did turn it down
And then also the rpm gauge died......but come alive again...by tabbing it.

FZS600 Fazer '01

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4.236
Reg. datum:
21 nov. 2007
Turn it down? You mean you just didn't know how the choke worked?
Te koop:
Aanhanger incl oprijplaat: 150 euro
Tokico Radiale remtangen TEAB

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