Blade vs R1 vs GSXR

Joris

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11 dec 2001
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Gelezen in Motor Magazine van deze week (nr 7/2002):

"Wellicht dat de Honda Fireblade als winnaar uit de bus komt, ondakns ernstige minpunten op het gebied van injectie en stuurstabiliteit. Het zou zo maar kunnen zijn dat de pluspunten die negatieve eigenschappen weten te compenseren. De 2002-Fireblade is namelijk verder zo'n onwaarschijnlijk sensationele goede supersporter dat hij na het oplossen van de twee nadelen zijn concurrentie afslacht, inclusief de R1"

Goeiendag zeg, wat een conclusie. Die probleemjes moeten toch wel op te lossen zijn met een stuurdemper, een paar dynojet runs en aangepaste injectiemap.
 

Gekke Peppie

Die hard MF'er
20 feb 2002
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www.miamizoocrew.com
Gelezen in Motor Magazine van deze week (nr 7/2002):

"Wellicht dat de Honda Fireblade als winnaar uit de bus komt, ondakns ernstige minpunten op het gebied van injectie en stuurstabiliteit. Het zou zo maar kunnen zijn dat de pluspunten die negatieve eigenschappen weten te compenseren. De 2002-Fireblade is namelijk verder zo'n onwaarschijnlijk sensationele goede supersporter dat hij na het oplossen van de twee nadelen zijn concurrentie afslacht, inclusief de R1"

Goeiendag zeg, wat een conclusie. Die probleemjes moeten toch wel op te lossen zijn met een stuurdemper, een paar dynojet runs en aangepaste injectiemap.
Het magazine heet MOTOR..
je bent trouwens de ZX-9R veregeten die zit er ook nog bij..

Enigste wat je hoeft te veranderen aan de Blade is er een stuurdemper op monteren en powercommander om de dip bij 2800 toeren weg te halen.
 

GSXR1000

Die hard MF'er
8 feb 2002
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Heb je ook het stukje gelezen, waarin de GSXR1000 de R1 en de Blade op het circuit, 3 seconden zoek rijd... :} Dit is te lezen op de GSXR1000 club en de R1 club.
 
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GSXR1000

Die hard MF'er
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2002 Openbike Shootout

PHASE TWO: Flying very low at California Speedway
By the Motorcycle Online Staff

Fontana, California, April 2, 2002 --

How fitting that our first chance to ride Fontana should come the very week before the AMA's first ever National there, to be held April 6-7. If we payed more attention to automobile racing, we probably wouldn't have been able to overlook for so long the monumental edifice Roger Penske hath built upon the site of the old Kaiser Steel plant, just off the 10 Freeway and not more than an hour's drive from Los Angeles. Tucked inside the two-mile oval favored by the round-and-round car guys (and using their front straight) is a 2.3-mile motorcycle circuit said to contain 21 corners--which, we suppose is accurate if you include riding from your pit, through tech, and onto the track.

No quibbling from us, though, it's a hellacious race track: wide, mostly smooth except for one pretty ripply, fast braking zone in the infield; flowing, with some hard braking, a little finessey leaned-over braking called for in one right that tightens up--and enough aeration room down the front straight to let our open-class trio show their true colors in sixth gear. The whole place, though, with the exception of the 11-degree banking down the straight, is flat as the cat steak in the $3.99 breakfast deal at Minime's favorite restaurant (the Golden Eagle on Normandie Boulevard).



Our thanks up front, for making it all possible, go out to Larry and Momi Pointer of Fastrack Riders (www.fastrackriders.com) for putting us on the track, and to Tom Jirkovsky of California Sportbike Services (714-803-2090) for getting all the bikes shod with fresh Pirelli Dragon Supercorsa rubber.

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Age before Beauty -- JB rides:
Yamaha YZF-R1
Right, the R1 got tires first, and it was a simple matter of pulling the headlight plugs and throwing one piece of duct tape across the tail light to pass through Fastrack tech after having ridden the thing to the track half an hour earlier. (We don't need no stinking tire warmers or EZ-Up canopies or spare wheels--not when we can sponge off other people, that is. We love that about current motorcycles. It's what God intended and never mind that I got into a fight with the wife that morning about who's taking the truck today; I lost that one too.)

Once the tires were scuffed and warmed, I started in with the attempt to remember which turn followed which, followed shortly afterward by trying to blend speed with aiming in the proper general direction. Among the amazing things about a bike like the R1 is its tolerance for stupidity: Slam on the brakes late because you forgot how tight this chicane is, no problem. Yank the throttle open to keep from running off the inside of a corner you forgot opens up, and the engine responds with a smooooth onset of power.

(Sometimes people who've only been riding for a year or two axe me if an R1, or an R6, is too much bike for them? I honestly don't think so; there's tons of power packed at the top of both bikes' powerbands, but both are completely docile at part-throttle--especially the R1. You'd have to do something truly ridiculous to upset it.)

Mini likes to mess with the suspension adjusters; I like to ride. He changed preload a bit, front and rear, throughout the day, and some other settings (he outweighs me by 40 or so pounds), and though I could feel the differences, nothing he was able to do screwed up the way the Yamaha takes on the track. The engine of this bike perfectly complements its chassis; ie, completely smooth, linear delivery beginning low on the tachometer--completely free of spikes or dead spots, building to a huge rush at around 10,000 (whereupon the cool, programmable shift light would begin to blink).

Braking into the fast, bumpy zone, the R1 felt most composed and level-headed and modulable, and on it I got the most feedback trailing the brakes in to that one hard-to-read decreasing radius right. The Yamaha, too, makes the most seamless transition from braking, to easing off the brakes, to getting back on the gas; I felt like I was doing that with the most smoothness on the Yamaha, thanks to its chassis' excellent balance, and on the race track smoothness is the mother of speed. (I think I just made that up.)

Even with its new, longer trail figure for `02--at 103mm, it's the lengthiest of the bunch--the R1 still turns in almost as sharp as the Honda, quicker than the Suzuki anyway, and just as stable as the damper-equipped GSX-R at terminal velocity too.

Honda CBR-954RR

Well, just like on the street only moreso, the Honda flies round the track with ease but just doesn't feel like it has the power of the other two; in fact on the track next to them, it feels like a very fast 600, which is not a bad thing. In corners where I'd leave the other two bikes in third gear, it felt natural to drop the Honda down to second and drive out really hard; with its slightly stepped powerband and meticulously mapped FI--its engine comes on hard at 6 or 7000 rpm--there was simply less worry that the CBR would spin its rear tire out from under itself.



Like the R1, great brakes with good feel make it easy to brake into apexes and, unlike at the 954's Las Vegas debut, nobody experienced any chatter on the brakes, even in Fontana's muy-bumpo-rapido braking area, where you come flying in about 120 (130 on the Suzuki) and throw out the old arresting hooks all panicky-like.

The Honda generally feels quicker-reacting than the other two: nice for tight corners and chicanes, less heartening when accelerating hard over a bumpy patch or two that get the clip-ons doing a couple of quick slaps. Never more than a couple, though. No worries.

The greatest testament to the rightness of the Honda, though, is that we all thought we were going slowest on it. Mr. Stopwatch does not lie: Mini and myself went slightly quicker on the Honda than we did on the R1. Calvin was one-fifth of a second quicker on the R1 than on the CBR. Basically, though the R1 feels faster to everybody, R1 and 954 lap times are interchangeable. My personal buttock data-derivation system tells me the R1's a tad faster, but the lighter-feeling Honda slows down a smidge less in the corners. Either that or the CBR's quiet efficiency is even more quietly efficient than we suspected.

Suzuki GSX-R1000

Let's cut to the chase, shall we? The GSX-R1000 just kicks these bikes asses at the track, period, end of story, finish. All that mincing around we were doing in the mountains, talking about "feel" and "feedback" and all that garbage--what were we on anyway? At the track, all those fine adjustments and sophistries take a back seat to who's got the most power--the most accelerative power and the most decelerative. After that's settled, everything else is garnish really.

While the other bikes were busy showing off their diaphragm-equipped fuel-injection systems and HTEV four-holer titanium exhaust valves and things, the GSX-R just says, right, very nice, let's get on with it--and blows past them, rear tire smoldering and throwing beads of spent rubber. I personally never consciously worked on developing a "Superbike" riding style, but it's what I'm stuck with: slowish in the corners, and whack the throttle at the exits. The GSX-R, then, is the bike for me. Only get it pointed in the general intended direction, and the growler-class engine does the rest. (One guy on a 996 at the track that day must hate me; a faster rider than me, I kept seeing him close up in my mirrors in the corners. After a couple of laps he had a spot or two where he could squeeze past. Once back on the main straight, as long as he was within about a football field, the GSX-R would reel him in, blow past, and make him do it all over again. Highly entertaining.)

Don't be thinking you're going to use the same brake markers you used with the other two bikes either; when the Suzuki gets there, it's carrying way more speed. And while we whined about its brakes' wooden feeling on the street, at the track--where when you use the brakes you almost always clamp them on like a cartoon lobster--the six-piston Tokico calipers are eyeball-popping powerful.

I know I was lapping substantially faster on the Suzuki because I kept running up the back of people and getting held up every time I had a good lap going, there at the end of the day--a thing that never happened aboard the Honda or Yamaha. Otherwise I'd have smoked Minimeat.

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Minime Speaks
Suzuki
It's amazing. Last year, at the Streets of Willow track, I didn't like the bike. The long, sweeping turns require a ton of front-end feel to comfortably rail through and the GSX-R didn't have it. Sure, it had power, but getting through the turns was sketchy. I felt like no matter how powerful the thing was getting out of a corner, it lost a lot of time in the middle.

On a track like Fontana, the GSX-R was, for me, The King; like Elvis and dressed just as tacky. Anywho, going into a corner, the chassis let me trail-brake into corners, deep, get it turned and then open the throttle up and wail out. It was a wheel-spinning good time. The chassis was always solid and coming out under power I always knew what the back end was doing--I didn't care about the front.



The Suzuki's harder than the Yamaha or Honda to flick from side-to-side through the chickens, but you just have to muscle it around -- a small trade-off I think. And since I like the feel of a big bike under me and don't mind the slightly greater physical exertion, I was groovin' on the big Suzy and clicked of my fastest laps of the day on it--easily.

With the 180-section rear, the GSX-R was easier to get turned, though it was still harder to do so than on the other bikes with their 190-section rears. And though the brakes still lack initial bite, their overall power was always sufficient to get things slowed, even when arriving into corners a lot faster than I was on the other bikes. At the end of the day, though, the second set of tires were fully shat, as were the brakes, which started to fade.

Yamaha

I thought this bike would be my favorite, but it wasn't -- I'd place it second: good motor, great throttle response, and great brakes. The R1 just felt rounder than I liked, and it never felt as planted as the Suzuki. Shifting was kind of notchy, too. I could go into corners fine, but I couldn't brake in towards the apex like I could on the Suzuki. Still, it was much better here than the Honda.

Fast side-to-side transitions were handled OK, though the front end would protest a bit, feeling like it got wound up before shaking a bit coming out. And going in, towards the end of the day, the brakes felt like they were pulsing a little, like the discs were starting to get warped or something.

All in all, a good track bike, not a great one. It would take a lot of set-up time to get dialed to where it'd challenge the Suzuki, and there you'd be, still down on motor. It's a good bike, no doubt, but the R1 is neither the fastest nor easiest to ride fast. Then again, it's not the toughest to ride and it's certainly not boring.

Honda

I was surprised when, after my timed laps, the Yamaha was just a tick slower than the 954. Giving up so much power, I thought it'd get worked. The Honda's ace is its mid-corner feel. With the front-end fiddled with a bit and some minor adjustments out back, the thing would carve a mean arc; the problem was getting into the corners.



With the most initial braking bite of the bunch, the 954 required you to squeeze the brakes on before you could really get deep into them. And then, all the braking had to be done while upright, before getting the bike turned; for me, the Honda felt like it wanted to run wide when I'd try to trail-brake into corners. So you'd have to brake down to your entry speed and then ease off as you're turning it in. Then, the CBR felt like it wanted to fall into the corner before settling on a line. Once in the corner though, having spotted your exit, you could just whack the throttle open and the bike would hold its arc on the way out. A combination of great feedback and weak power made this the easiest bike to ride out of the corners. It never threatened to flick you off and would only spin up occasionally. Easy to go fast on, but basically outclassed on the track.

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Hackfu: Wheel-spinning powah--ACTIVATE!
Suzuki

Wheelspinning Power! Even rank amateurs can experience what it's like to have wheel-spinning power just a wrist-snap away! Super fast, the only bike I was going consistently faster than 160 on the front straight. That's fast with a "ph".
Stable handling: even with Wheelspinning Powah!, the bike remains deceptively stable. I wonder where the limits of handling and traction lie.... maybe I don't want to find out?? It did seem to want to push.... but that could just be me... maybe as the front end provided enough force to hold up the rest of the bike the rear would slip? I dunno...
Other issues? The brakes worked fine, although towards the end of the day, I could tell that the pads/rotors were shot... and the GSX-R ate up those Supercorsas faster than a dog eats a pair of lamb chops.
Yamaha




Smooth power: great power everywhere along the powerband, very fast. Low 150 to high 140 mph range on the front straight (these digital speedos seem to be much more accurate than in the old days).
Also stable handling: very neutral and predictable. I didn't have to think about the bike... it was very much like the GSX-R without the under-steering tendency. I felt like I could ride the "back end" more on the Yamaha than on the Suzuki.
Other issues? Brakes were fine, no fade. Gearbox still a bit of notchiness. Am I just being sloppy?
Honda

Acceptable power: good snap... felt like there was a 'surge of power' at around 8,000 rpm. Don't know what that was about. Below about 5000 rpm, though, modulating the throttle was an excercise--only on the track does the CBR exhibit a slightly snatchy/glitchy throttle compared to the other two. Just the same, I saw high 130s, low 140 mph readings down the front straight.
Fast handling: the CBR makes quick direction changes, really quick steering. Even so, it requires just as much force/power to make line adjustments as the other two.
Other issues? The brakes bite really well, but make the bike stand up too much to be any real good for trail-braking. most evident through the decreasing radius right hander and that first left hander off the banking, after the chicanes.
End Result: My vote? The GSX-R. You can't BUY that kind of power unless you buy the GSX-R.

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The Times, The Points
__ GSX-R1000 CBR-954RR YZF-R1
Minime 1:40.70 (3 pts) 1:43.05 (2 pts) 1:43.20 (1 pts)
JohnnyB 1:41.93 (3 pts) 1:44.35 (2 pts) 1:44.89 (1 pts)
Hackfu 1:45.24 (3 pts) 1:46.78 (1 pts) 1:46.58 (2 pts)
Total 9 pts 5 pts 4 pts

Nothing subjective about this part of the test. What bike went fastest. Period. Three points for fastest bike, two points for the second fastest bike, and one point for the slug, which is really no slug at all.



Mr. Casio Says:

The winner of the racetrack competition is as clear as the proboscis on Mini's countenance; the Suzuki gave the other two bikes what-for every which way, rung their bells, choked their chickens, shut off their water and hung them out to dry.

So far, then, at the end of the Street Competition and the Track Flog--with only drag strip testing left to run and the critical Swimsuit Competition (in which we three Wise MO's pick our subjective favorites after having had all three on the casting couch for awhile), the points stand as follows. Note that we give very slight bias toward the Street riding part of the test by having four street judges instead of three. Well, we did have a fourth tester, though (shock!) something happened to him. Wild child Roland Sands was on hand turning laps with us. Unfortunately, his TZ250 decided to spit him off before we could get any timed laps on him aboard our CBR954.

On the clock early in the day, Rolando was clicking off times in the 1:36.8 range on the GSX-R and he was in the 1:39.4 range on the Yamaha, his lap times dropping every time he came by. Even though we don't have his best times nor do we have a raging diatribe from the kid, his input was taken into consideration in the set-up and evaluation of each of these machines. Note that both experts like Roland as well as the slower hacks among us went notably quicker around the circuit on board the Suzuki, further securing its strangle-hold on the top spot.
 

Stoef

MF'er
14 okt 2001
229
0
Zaanstad
Acceleratie 0-100: Honda 2.8, Kawa 2.7, Soes 2.9, Yammer 3.3 seconden

Acceleratie 0-200: Honda 8.3, Kawa 8.6, Soes 7.7, weer Yammer 9.4 seconden

WHOEHAHAHA
Komt zeker door die gouden drijfstangen????

Later
 

Ronald Voncken

MF veteraan
5 jan 2002
1.746
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Posterholt
Neem 4 motoren, neem, laten we zeggen 10 ervaren testrijders c.q. journalisten.
Laat ze alle tien hun verslag doen en de kans is groot dat je geen conclusie kunt trekken m.b.t. de beste motor. :?
 

Ronald Voncken

MF veteraan
5 jan 2002
1.746
0
Posterholt
Op donderdag 04 april 2002 21:05 schreef Stoef het volgende:
Acceleratie 0-100: Honda 2.8, Kawa 2.7, Soes 2.9, Yammer 3.3 seconden

Niks is zo betrekkelijk als acceleratie tijden van een motor.
Neem bijv. Rossi, laat hem 4x starten van 0 tot 100km/h en je zult 4x een andere tijd klokken
Alhoewel bij iemand als Rossi de verschillen klein zullen zijn
 

twisted Paul

MF veteraan
16 okt 2001
2.608
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..grappig dat zelfs in de topic titel de zx9r al wordt vergeten.

Acceleratie tijden vielen me ook op. Neem aan dat dit ook een gemiddelde is van een paar runs :?

Hoe zat het met de tussenacceleratie ?

Dat is voor iedereen even snel, das gewoon
lomp het gas erop en gaan.

Als de Yam daar ook 'laag' scoort dan geloof ik
die 3,3 ook wel.

Blade was idd de verrassing van het jaar :] :}
 

Raul

Die hard MF'er
5 jun 2001
840
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www.quickzilver.nl
3 versnelling
Acceleratie 50-120: Honda 4.5, Kawa 3.9, Soes 3.8, Yama 3.7 seconden

Acceleratie 80-140: Honda 3.2, Kawa 3.2, Soes 3.0, weer Yama 3.1 seconden

6 versnelling
Acceleratie 50-120: Honda 7.1, Kawa 7.0, Soes 6.3, Yama 5.7 seconden

Acceleratie 80-140: Honda 5.0, Kawa 5.6, Soes 5.1, weer Yama 4.8 seconden
 

twisted Paul

MF veteraan
16 okt 2001
2.608
0
Nou, dit zijn toch getallen waar je in de praktijk meer aan hebt..

Die 0-100 sprint zal dan wel niet helemaal vlekkeloos zijn verlopen voor de yam.
 

EdisonBatz777

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