TeamHeronSuzuki
Two Stroke or No Stroke
- 2 okt 2006
- 38.358
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Zou mooi zijn als de uitstoot gunstig wordt voor de euro norm. Lang leve de 2takt
Waarom zit er nou weer een carburateur op?
gemaakt voor carting waar injectie nog niet toegelaten is.
overigens zijn er nog maar weinig mensen over die iets van de claims geloven en gewoon zeggen dat de claims niet mogelijk zijn (vooral over de vermogens dan).
Frits Overmars heeft zich al terug getrokken ondertussen, en Jan Thiel is er ook absoluut niet over te spreken (en dan druk ik zijn mening nog zacht uit).
er zou onlangs een 50cc versie gemaakt zijn, die de volle 14pk (of zoiets) ontwikkelde (iedere serieuze hobbyist krijgt dat voor mekaar).
geen enkele effekttieve vermogensgrafiek is al naar buiten gekomen, wel "zelfgetekende" en de duurzaamheid van de zuiger zou ook maar bedenkelik zijn.
tot nog toe uitgedraaid op een immense teleurstelling naar mijn mening, na al hun schitterende claims
Dat mag wel zijn, maar als het heel blijft én er wordt geen olie verbrand heeft het een groot win punt op de reguliere 2-takt.
Ryger finally bought a dyno....
Those 70HP were just calculated as I always thought.
The new dyno is very 'unfriendly', as it indicates far less HP than expected.
A really big disappointment after some years of work, but we must have patience!
How many years I don't know......
The 50cc version gives 14HP I heard
So the world record attempt will have to be postponed a little bit!
As about 30HP would be needed...
All time and money spent in this project looks wasted to me, I am sorry to say!
How so many people were fooled, I still don't understand.......
As Katinas wrote earlier, nor his engine, nor the Ryger has auxiliary exhaust ports because those would require a wider piston skirt, that would in turn hamper the flow into the transfers. Since I read it here, I can react without endangering my NDA (thank you Katinas). And what follows now, is purely my own guesswork since I never received any relevant information from Ryger.
From the Ryger homologation papers we can see that the exhaust timing is lower than the Aprilia RSA timing, so the Ryger's blowdown angle.area is tiny compared to the RSA's. And when taking the initially quoted maximum torque rpm of 17500 into account, the Ryger's blowdown time.area was almost non-existent. It nevertheless did not stop it from producing over 70 hp.
And before anybody says that they've never seen any proof of this amount of power in the form of a real dyno graph, let me say that neither have I, but I was lucky enough to get a seat-of-the-pants impression of the original Ryger prototype before problems with the production engines brought the operation to a halt, and my pants are not that easily fooled, having ridden motorcycles with several hundred hp.
By the way, what made me decide to step out of the project, was the lack of frankness. I would have loved to take part in the development of that engine, but it turned out that I was only recruited to generate publicity. I'm sure I could have prevented some of those technical problems if only there had been an exchange of thoughts, but all I ever got were promises. It's a pity....
OK, back to my theory. Seeing that the in-cylinder pressure of the RSA is about 12 bar at exhaust opening, and given that the Ryger is claimed to produce about 20 hp more than the RSA, and given that the Ryger's blowdown time.area is so much smaller, there must be a huge amount of spent gases that enter the Ryger's transfer ducts, raising the pressure in the sub-piston volume and the density of the mixture (well observed, Philou). The higher pressure may lead to a much faster transfer flow, with more mixture inertia. This inertia then ought to pull more fresh mixture through the reed inlet valve.
I only wonder how effective this inertia can function, as the Ryger's transfer ducts are very short and anything but flow-encouraging.
Quote Originally Posted by Vannik
Ryger Question:
The displacement in the chamber below the piston is roughly half the cylinder displacement - thus the pumped volume is about 70cc in a 125cc engine. So relying on pumping only at theoretical best we can only get a delivery ratio of 50% (Aprillia RSA125 ~ 140%) so where does the rest of the charge come from?
You would need some super pipe to create this sort of suction to make up the difference and that is just to match the RSA125, but the Ryger is supposed to be relatively insensitive to pipe design so not this?
The inertia of the gas flowing through the ports can help a small amount but nowhere near this difference.
Answer Jan Thiel
So there is NO reason why it should give more than about 30HP I can think of.....
It MIGHT be overhyped horse poo....
Vannick :
I updated my software to simulate stepped pistons, both ways, the traditional bigger bottom step and the Ryger smaller step, and I have tried many ways without ever exceeding 30hp on the Ryger. Maybe I am missing something....
SwePatrick
Without any proof or other evidence of that Ryger engine actually working as stated i get the feeling it´s only smoke and screens to get new investers spend money, to secure some guys income without actual work.
Very common actually, getting investors to spend money on highrisc projects.
Often, very often this is conned by old guys figured out how to rip money off those rich people.
And it stinks Gizmondo....(google: Google)
jamathi
Exactly my idea too, 2 years of big talking without any proof!
Complete bullshit...
This project seems to be failing in a bad way.
No engines are being sold....although they are for sale now since a couple of month's
No one is believing these people anymore.
Now they will have to proof themselves on a real racing track!
And then there is still the reliability problem....
Spare pistons will not be cheap, after hundreds of them have been made without success.
And piston life will always be quite short, due to the very high lateral forces acting upon it.
Caused by the very short connecting rod.
Now a 50cc version is being made, with some very capable people working on it.
This may be the final proof I think.
Er zijn komend weekend kartwedstrijden, ik ben benieuwd of ze daar mee doen.
Evenementen Archief | Chrono Karting
Jan Thiel 12/11/17 6:12 :
Today is the first important kart race at Kerpen, near Holland.
Not 1 Ryger competing......
You would expect them to show their 66HP.
But apparently nobody has bought an engine from them!
This might end badly, with someone losing a lot of money.
50 unsold engines......
Future scrap.
And indeed: a third party dyno would be the only way to convince people now.....
Since last Sunday, Jun 4th 2017, Danny Aumiller holds the track record at kart-circuit Eefde NL with his MS kart and Ryger-Engine.
Fastest lap: 26.32 sec